zathansrule banned - Page 2

wow ... its gotta take skill to really piss off Hil =P <bows>

they shoulda pulled the plug on that lady in FL at least 5 years ago.

Oh of course..Jetsetter is going to play god now, isnt he. He's going to decide who lives and dies. What, does being human not necessarily mean you have "personhood"/? Thats exactly what the Nazis did in Germany in the 1930's. They killed disabled people just like those crooked judges are doing in Swamp County Florida.

Let me ask you Jetsetter, would you pull the plug on Terry if she were in a headscarf? Huh, you hypocrite! if she were Muslim you would be protesting to keep her alive, you piece of trash, you. Go back to your suburb and smoke your "stuff" and dont get involved in life or death discussions. You're going to lecture me about civilians dying in Iraq but dont want to save your own fellow American's life. You nazi scum. What if she were in a headscarf? ANswer that.

Whoa! Enough already, christ! Dave, please come back from europe and BAN THIS GUY FULLY! LOL

Then why do you keep coming back? I thought you were leaving.

why do you always tell me to go back to my suburb? it's not like i leave my suburb every time i make a post. no im sure if she was a muslim in a vegetative state, they woulda pulled the plug long before 15 years. thats so ridiculous. i think it's terrible that she has to die. what's more terrible is if she had to live like that forever.
why don't you and jeb bush go bullshit about how she could recover from being a vegetable for the past 15 YEARS and how she was "misdiagnosed" etc. etc. there should be a law that states a 10 year max for people in a vegetative state. and yes i believe value of life decreases as quality of life decreases. i know that sounds harsh but i mean it in the most sympathetic way. would your life have much value if you were lying in a bed with your mouth open all day? i guess it depends on your definition of value and if you're a fundamentalist like you. here's an article for you to read about this issue. by the way i never said i was god. he would have made the logical decision to remove the feeding tube long before it became a news story for evangelical fanatics like you to latch onto.[/url]

wow

First of all she was responding well in therapy until her husband stopped it and threw her in a hospice to die. Your sick jetsetter.

she's been a vegetable for 15 years. great life huh! read the article and tell me who the sick one is.

Ok, Shaivo nothing to do with the topic... please....

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Jetsetter you brain is in a vegetative state and i don't see anyone starving you to death.

Re: .

Since we're in drama and I dont have mod rights to lock or remove any posts maybe I'll weigh in on this. First off: Personal attacks are lame. If you wanna debate the whole terri schiavo thing, please do so without sinking to level of insults.

First off, a moment of silence for her as apparently she's passed away this morning

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I feel terrible for her and her family, and I dont fathom why her husband was so insistant on pulling the plug but were it not for advances in modern medicine that woman would have passed on years ago. Her husband is her legal guardian and from a legal perspective, he has the final say. I'm appalled by the level of intrusion that the government has been willing to reach to in order to go against the law of the land. I really don't like the idea of the legislature hand-picking cases to 'fast-track' to appeals courts (who gets to decide which cases are worthy? Does it open the door to the legislature PREVENTING cases from going to appeals courts? Slippery slope) nor do I like the idea of the legislature trying to cheat the court system out of its rulings by summoning people to testify. That's just slimy, and anyways it's not the way our government is supposed to work. In this case the results are truly tragic, but I would rather have a small number of tragic cases and maintain the separation of powers than risk our democracy to save one person...

The upshot of all this is that hopefully more people will write down/tell their families of their wishes. In the end, that was the real problem; That Ms. Schiavo never had anything written. If she'd had a living will which said "Please do not try and keep me alive artificially" or "I want to be kept alive artificially" then none of this would have happened in the first place.

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What a scumbag the husband is not allowing her parents in the room as she died. Ihope someone ices this guy.
RIP Terry

Re: .

I havent heard that this was the case. Anyways, if you read the history of the case, Michael and her parents were NEVER in the room together and they all visited her regularly. They hadn't spoken in years. You dont know why he was only there and not them. Maybe the parents were in court at the time? Maybe the police prevented them from entering? Please dont pass such judgements without knowing the facts...

Re: .

Im watching the news and heard the same thing. Reportedly, the parents begged him to allow them to be in there for the assessment of her condition, and he refused. They left the room 10 minutes before she passed (and were not allowed to enter)--this was partly because of the ruling that they should not be in the same room together, yet you'd think if a person was on the verge on dying, you'd allow their family to be with her as she did. I don't think it would have hurt anyone to all be together as she passed.

Hmmm...think maybe the severe crippling estrangement that the parents and husband find themselves participating in started with some name calling?

And maybe, just maybe their stubborn hard headed crystalized-blinded positions didn't allow either group to budge an inch....and this poor soul starved to death because of it?

Big issues are never black and white with clear crisp lines. If you think they are...then you're living with your eyes closed. And if cannot debate without intelligent contribution or calling names go play in some other sandbox.....STFU and go away.

agreed.

WTF? Nazis? Terri Schiavo? Muslims? Can this thread spin any more out of control?

Let's throw in some UFO sightings, a couple of 9/11 conspiracy theories, and a few state militia recruiters and we will officially be one of those wingnut political forums.

Believe me if I had the ability to lock it I would have done so long ago....

Excuuuuuse me!

There are only a few who are running amuck here. Please do not lump us all in on the nazi/muslim/Terri/wingnuts conspiracy.

As for the UFO's...well I personally just love being abducted (it's all about the probings you know). But unfortunately we've had a falling out and those little gray men haven't called or visited in quite some time.

Sigh.

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All I hope is that someone shoots that guy for not letting the family be in there.

wtf what are you all talking about!

Advancedart... all you have to do is type "terri schiavo" into google and you will find out exactly what everyone is talking about... It's nothing that needs to be discussed here but some people (Ahem, ZR/FR) feel the need to drag it into the topic of him being banned.

ah ok I remember
just didn't know that she was called Terri Schiavo

It's a pretty tragic event - the only thing that failed here is the medical system. The Judicial branch did exactly what it was supposed to do. It considered evidence from 3 witnesses, and testimony from doctors/neurologists.

What failed the American people was a concensus about what her condition is. The lines were blurred for:
1) what qualifies as 'life support'
2) what consists of a 'persistent vegitative state' (PVS)

In case you're unfamiliar with what happened:
- There was a panel of doctors who were consulted on the affair. Three were pro-Euthanasia, two of which were appointed by the court and one by a random committee. The other two doctors were strongly pro-life (opposed to any form of Euthanasia.)
- The panel of doctors was clearly biased and ruled accordingly. The panel decided 3-2 that she was in a persistent vegetative state (That she was brain-dead) and the judge consequently ruled that her feeding tube should be removed.
- The actual court doctor that the judge relied on for evidence is under the impression that 'spoon-feeding ' is life-support.

It's also interesting to note although Mrs. Schiavo's brain scans showed a lot of fluid in her brain, that neuroscience does not actually know to what extent she might be brain-damaged.

This case really bothered me on that level - that medical doctors could not agree on this case. It clearly leaves a reasonable doubt in my mind as to what her condition was...

To those who say "Oh but what sort of life is that ...." You don't know! I don't know, the doctors don't know; nobody knew except for her. It's hard to say, but like the precedent that the courts use for criminals, I would think that she should have lived until proven brain-dead (which would have been never - since they can't).

And to make a note about the congressmen that got involved. They were two medical doctors who were very insulted that the five-doctor panel ruled that Mrs. Schiavo was in PVS. Sadly, all of congress got involved and you know what happened after that ...