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Why my HF account is about to be deleted  

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Short story: Dave issued me an ultimatum, of which I refuse to comply, and will now DELETE my forum account (not ban) because I will not do what he tells me to.

Long story: As many of you know, I started a forum (which I wont mention as per request of the moderators) that's become quite popular with HonestForum members seeking freedom and popular sovereignty. There was a ton of spam (not by myself) of those members promoting the forum. Last night I sent Dave a very friendly PM telling him I do not condone the spam, and that I wish him the best with HF and I have no malice toward him. Below are word for word quotes of the resulting exchange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
why the hell do you let them post shit like this then

Forum message - JAWNZFORUM

do you want me to google you guys and put a list together of you and your forum admin's addresses? and encourage my members to throw shit at your houses?
My response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
We clearly have different views of what should and should not be posted on a forum; however I agree that that is particularly over the line. Removed it..
His response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
and what about this
Forum message - JAWNZFORUM

Quote:
shes a dumb bitch
Quote:
why did this whing bitch have to include herself i n her avatar?
Quote:
on a related note, the bitch (sp) in question in this thread blows
why the hell would you let somebody tear somebody to shreds like that.
My response....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
people can say whatever they want. we don't need to baby people and their feelings, we're grown ups. yeah it's not the nicest thing to say but restricting freedom is even more of a fallacy. from an administrative standpoint it makes much more sense to promise the freedom of all members over the emotions of a single one. yes, every member is important...but at the same time their rights are equally important.

plus you're well aware of how pee is with any sort of moderation. notice the correlations between how many times my staff has banned him (0), deleted his posts (0), or edited his posts (1) and how much trouble he's creating compared to your bans (10+), deleted posts (??), edits (10+) compared to trouble
His response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
do you want to just resign from hf. it might be easiest.

if you are going to allow shit like that over there, there is no reason to keep an account here.
my response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
no i don't want to terminate my membership or anything of the like here. what i do elsewhere on the internet (whether it be a forum, porn website, or whatever) shouldn't be a concern of the administration of separate entity. if i keep it off your forum (which my first message to you stated), there is no issue.
His response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
so whats your call.

i don't want to keep hosting your account when your members are posting pics of women and ripping the shit outta them.
My response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
analyze what you just said. you're really threatening to ban me because you don't agree with my actions on an unrelated forum? that's beyond ludicrous.

consider it on a much larger scale, of the president were to banish someone because he doesn't agree with their particular personal belief...would that be fair? would you feel, as a citizen, safe under an administration that condones such illogical behavior? i'm almost certain the answer would be one big fat no.
His response..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
well you can't have both bro.

im not gonna keep hosting your account here, while you let shit like that go down over there.
A second message by him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
sorry man, but im not keeping your HF account live if you let your members call our members names and shit. and post pics of them to make fun of them.

it seems like you want to keep allowing your members to say anything, no matter how disrespectful or out of line. so just say the word and i'll close your account right now. (it won't be a ban, i'll just delete your account)
My response

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
i do not want you to close my account.

the bottom line is: i condone equality, not mindless flaming. i stated in plain english that i do agree that it's harsh, however if that's how things go, so be it. our trash forum is filled no holds barred, enter at your own risk content. doing something about it, in this specific case (with the member at hand considered), would be more detrimental than beneficial.

issuing an ultimatum is unequivocally one of the worst decisions you can make for this forum right now...
Another PM from him

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave
Mihalis,

Ok so here's the bottom line.

You are a leader and co-admin of Jawnz. You guys are paying for the server, you have the right to say what does or doesn't go down on your site. You are the ones that set the standard and make the rules.

Allowing people to post pics of our members and call them Dumb Bitch and stuff is just pathetic. Also that post about Niggers slowing down the subway trains is pretty over the top too. There is no reason you should allow your members to call black people Niggers.

So yea, we just can't keep your account live at HF if you are gonna allow shit like that to go down on your servers.

So in 24 hours, (Tomorrow afternoon) I am going close your mall account and forum account.

Thank you for understanding.

Dave Craige
As we can see from above, Dave demanded that I delete and modify content from my forum (which he isn't even a member of, nevermind an administrator) and threatened to delete my account on the grounds that "he can't host me if I allow this". Time and time again I told him that I don't agree and necessarily condone the content of those posts, but as an administrator who prefers freedom over censorship, I'm going to have to keep the posts.


Good bye HF, I wish it didn't have to be this way.
post #2 of 23
Thread Starter 
Here is an unmodified copy of my initial message to Dave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
Hey Dave, I wanted to shoot you a quick PM before I go to bed apologizing for all the controversy I may have induced and for all the spam of Jawnz that's been going on. Know that any future (and the ones today; presumably by peter) spam or posts promoting the forum here are not endorsed by me (or the other JF staff) at all. They're just disgruntled HF members who think it would be funny to stir up more drama. I told Theory and Advil to chill it last night and will reiterate to other members should it persist.

I don't want to portray the image that my forum is some sort of competitor to yours. It's essentially meant to fill in a smaller niche that many former (and even now current) HF members (and future JF members) have become more interested in.

Malice toward none, charity for all
Best of luck to you sir
post #3 of 23
Whatttt

edit: to be a bit more constructive. Beyond HF, I post on 4chan, Mihalis's site, Sufu, TFS, AF, lookbook, and a whole bunch more that arent fashion related... not that 4chan is, but its note worthy. That includes, POTN, OCC, o2, UE'er, RFD, and I could go on for a bit. On at least two of those I post like a complete asshole.

Dave, I have a lot of respect for what you do, but this right here, I don't get. Sure that thread in question is mean, but it didn't take place here. I can't see how thats fair.

Because Mihalis doesn't agree to implement rules on his site is absolutely no grounds to remove him from here. I fail to see how this is different from if I were to trash talk members in real life, or to discuss them in private, say over PM, or over another sort of messaging service.

edit x2:

Each forum is a separate entity, what goes on on one doesnt transcend to another, Dave I have to say you are over reaching your grounds here.
post #4 of 23
i heard that some people on sufu were mean to each other too once. dave should go talk to them about that.

also i was fapping last night and accidently saw gay porn.
post #5 of 23
its simple.

you are the leader of a forum and you allow people to post disrespectful and hateful stuff.

I am not going to keep hosting your HF and HM accounts here, while I watch you let people write truly horrible shit about our members on your site.



also if you were an ebay scammer and doing stuff on ebay's site that was ripping people off or extremly hateful you would also be removed from HF. the "its a different site" doesn't hold water. many members here frequent numerous forums and fashion sites.


Q. Why have you never deleted AF or DenimDNA members' accounts.
A. He is not a member. Mihalis is the owner of Jawnz. (Jskid owns just the domain). If he is gonna let hateful stuff be posted on his site, we really don't want to keep his accounts here open. I have asked him to simply close his HF account on his own accord and just work on his own stuff since it is so different from what we stand for here.
post #6 of 23
if you delete his account, i guarantee you that the bashing, flaming and ripping-to-shreds will increase exponentially.
post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
its simple.

you run a forum that allows people to post disrespectful and hateful stuff.

I don't agree with that

I am not going to keep hosting your HF and HM accounts here, while I watch you let people write truly horrible shit about our members on your site.



pretty simple really.
You're not entitled to police the entire internet just because some of its contents may refer to member that so happens to be on your site. I can totally understand you banning the poster of that post, but I see no real logic in banning the member who has not said a single malicious thing about her.
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony View Post
Whatttt

edit: to be a bit more constructive. Beyond HF, I post on 4chan, Mihalis's site, Sufu, TFS, AF, lookbook, and a whole bunch more that arent fashion related... not that 4chan is, but its note worthy. That includes, POTN, OCC, o2, UE'er, RFD, and I could go on for a bit. On at least two of those I post like a complete asshole.

Dave, I have a lot of respect for what you do, but this right here, I don't get. Sure that thread in question is mean, but it didn't take place here. I can't see how thats fair.

Because Mihalis doesn't agree to implement rules on his site is absolutely no grounds to remove him from here. I fail to see how this is different from if I were to trash talk members in real life, or to discuss them in private, say over PM, or over another sort of messaging service.
well said. some of the things i do on other forums are worthy of getting me completely barred from the internet. especially 4chan. i've encouraged people to kill themselves for chrissakes, google abraham biggs hahahah.
post #9 of 23
Mihalis, this whiny bitch thread you started is far from what a grown up would do.
post #10 of 23
How is this a winy bitch thread? Its perfectly leginiment discussion
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthony View Post
How is this a winy bitch thread? Its perfectly leginiment discussion
Grown ups move on and go to their new house instead of coming back and yelling at their old landlord that always pissed them off just because they are still mad.
post #12 of 23
Right so if a member gets banned for a questionable cause that member is to just shut up and forget anything ever happened?
post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mihalis
people can say whatever they want. we don't need to baby people and their feelings, we're grown ups. yeah it's not the nicest thing to say but restricting freedom is even more of a fallacy. from an administrative standpoint it makes much more sense to promise the freedom of all members over the emotions of a single one. yes, every member is important...but at the same time their rights are equally important.

plus you're well aware of how pee is with any sort of moderation. notice the correlations between how many times my staff has banned him (0), deleted his posts (0), or edited his posts (1) and how much trouble he's creating compared to your bans (10+), deleted posts (??), edits (10+) compared to trouble
You are babying Peter! The more he misbehaves the less you moderate?

I think when I grow up I am going to be a hermit.
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
its simple.

you are the leader of a forum and allow people to post disrespectful and hateful stuff.

I am not going to keep hosting your HF and HM accounts here, while I watch you let people write truly horrible shit about our members on your site.
Do what you want, but this is going to come back to bite you.

You've just transformed Jawnsforum from a complete joke/spoof/off-topic forum into the place that everyone you banned is going to go. You're shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly here and hurting your investment in the process.

You gave a +1 to my post that said "Dave should step back into the shadows again" yet you're still micromanaging and frankly going on a totally maniacal power-trip. You're also pulling an Al Davis on CUTUP (cutting off your new head coach's balls, in case you don't watch sports).

Mihalis, Avatar, SevenKid, now Advil, who is next? You're going to end up with a forum consisting of yourself (who doesn't even give a crap about clothes), Lorna, WeLoveDenim, and Nova. Is that what you want?
post #15 of 23
^ but will we ever really grow up?
this was meant fur begret
post #16 of 23
This is a whole new level of whoa.

Dave, you can be a dictator on your own forum and tell people what to say and what to do, but you should not be deleting someone's account because of what they do on another forum. That's beyond ridiculous in my opinion. Will you ban someone or delete someone's account if they say in an email that someone is an ugly bitch? You can't be everywhere...you can not be the god of denim and fashion forums.

If this logic is true however, why have you never deleted AF or DenimDNA members' accounts.

I am not trying to pick a fight with you here... but you really should step back and have a latte and let CUTUP run the site or else he will NEVER get any respect and people will just view him as a puppet president.

Dave, this is your forum... and you can warn people and ban people for what they say and do on YOUR forum... but watch what you do because this will open a big ass can of worms.
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by begret View Post
You are babying Peter! The more he misbehaves the less you moderate?

I think when I grow up I am going to be a hermit.
it seems as if the less we moderate his posts the less he misbehaves

well said bio

i'm not looking for a fight with dave or any other HF member, i just don't think it's right for something like this to happen.
post #18 of 23
I can't belieeeve I am quoting ross...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post
Mihalis, Avatar, SevenKid, now Advil, who is next? You're going to end up with a forum consisting of yourself (who doesn't even give a crap about clothes), Lorna, WeLoveDenim, and Nova. Is that what you want?
Absolutely.
post #19 of 23
This so retarded.
post #20 of 23
This is truly absurdity on an entirely new level.

I'd ask Dave to look at his own post history and see just how many negs he's been getting from nearly everyone; not even just JF people. Don't you think that warrants some self examination and maybe a change of your personal protocols?

This is insane. Wow... just, wow.
post #21 of 23
This keeps getting worse and worse... I'm sorry that it's all coming to this.
post #22 of 23

Dave's just too cool for school

/


post #23 of 23
Mihalis and I are working on this privately.

He has been convincing me that he is instituting some standards against some of the hateful things we have read over there.

Announcement (Page 1) - The Lounge - JAWNZFORUM

We are gonna work out our differences by pm.

Thanks!
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