HF Decides 2008. Who will U vote for? - Page 9

JD, if you look at the chart in the link I posted, the only way you would pay more under Obama than under McCain is if you make more than $161K... granted this is only if all of their directives are approved. If you make under $227K you will still be paying less than you are now.

I didn't think you would be making that much, but I could be wrong.

JD, I heart you but I disagree with you. While we make a decent living and own our own business, I have really started to understand the healthcare crisis in the last two years. Health insurance is so expensive and excludes so many things, and right now we're "shopping" for health insurance for Addison. It's really scary to think that something could happen to your kids and it could potentially bankrupt you. Healthcare is at the top of my list of issues, closely followed by abortion.

I've never had an abortion, and I certainly don't agree with using it as a form of birth control, but I disagree further with the government thinking that they have the right to make decisions about my body based on their religious beliefs. Biden was on Meet the Press this morning and had some good points on the subject. I also found some interesting websites that gave me some new perspectives on abortion internationally and the issue of making it illegal, the repercussions of doing so, and how countries are affected by it.

Women on waves - Abortion laws Worldwide
CbyC:Abortion:International

I understand people wanting to keep their money in their pockets, but Obama has lots of ideas that I like. He wants to cut programs that aren't working efficiently and redistribute the money into things that DO work, in education, poverty, and immigration. People tend to forget what taxes go for- public safety (police officers, etc.), maintaining roads, schools, etc. No matter how much or how little money you make, you can't escape tax-paying, and frankly, I don't think that we should.

On top of that (sorry for the incredibly long post...) I think that "leveling the playing field" would in many ways improve our country. Think about how much tax money goes into prisons and paying for people to be housed in them. It's my belief that if there were more opportunities to make money and get a good education, people wouldn't turn so quickly to crime to make ends meet. Ignorance is such a huge problem and giving people the opportunity to get a good education would benefit everyone in the long run.

IMO.

as a pharma rep I seriously doubt I will have a job if obama is elected.. health care is at all time crisis but I don;t think he has the answers

avatar's beloved ron paul had some of the best suggestions as regarding health care

as the the tax info above from what I have read now obama has consulted with warren buffet and is now leading to a 20-25% not in the upper tier of 28%

I won't discuss what I make, or what my worth is in an open forum ,and spence I saw what you posted, I have also seen similar tax breakdowns on cnn, and tax websites.. I think its more like 116K though the difference in that grouping is small.

I am going to agree to disagree .. love yall to death like I said I dont take this personally..


I do know some people that are "super rich" and I just cant vote for something that essentially takes from them.. they worked hard for their money, made smart investments, and maybe had some old fashioned luck, I dont think anyone is intitled just to take from them b/c they made money

my dad sacrificed alot for where he is, lived well below his means for years and years , still to this day to have the right savings and money to be comfortable for his future.. I dont think the government has the right to take a SIGINIFACNT portion of that money.

For me party differences arent about the social issues, they are about the economic ones.

I used to be enamored with Ayn Rand and was registered libertarian until this year...

I've since come to the belief that progressive income tax is much more fair than a proportional tax or a regressive tax. If all of McCain's directives are approved, this would amount to a regressive tax.

Personally, I am of the belief that only consumption and waste should be taxed; not income or anything else. But since this is not a reality at the moment, I choose what I feel to be the best option available.

riot: I do not call myself an Objectivist, as I think that most of Rand's followers are doing exactly what she didn't want - turning her writings into dogma.

However, I'm interested in how you came from libertarian/Objectivist leaning political views to supporting a progressive income tax... and even moreso, how you decided that "fair" should come to be defined as something that is on its face unfair.

I said it was "more fair" than a regressive tax or a proportional tax.

I did not say it was "fair" and in fact listed what I thought should be the only things taxed (i.e. waste and consumption, NOT income or anything else). Since my ideal is not an option now, I choose what I feel is the "most" fair.

You may disagree with this; if you do, I would guess you would disagree with a progressive tax being more fair than a proportional tax, which seems on its face to be the most equitable. However, if the government needed to receive a certain amount of dollars through taxation, if they were to resort to a proportional tax, the vast majority of Americans would pay much more in real dollars than they currently do under a progressive tax.

This statement confuses me.....both issues are not mutually exclusive....economic issues define social issues

I dunno why I got involved in this thread

do you support the Fair Tax?

i disagree and think a flat tax is far superior to a progressive tax... but i would rather income not be taxed at all.

I found this interesting. Even if the Supreme Court does agree to overturn Roe vs Wade the decision goes back to the states. Some states signed what is called "Trigger Laws" Those who didn't sign into the Trigger Law can decide whether to make abortion legal or illegal in their own state.

From Wikipedia~ Roe vs Wade

State abortion bans
On March 6, 2006, hoping to directly challenge Roe v. Wade, South Dakota Governor Mike Rounds signed into law a pro-life statute which made performing abortions a felony. That law was subsequently repealed in a referendum held on November 7 of the same year.[58] On February 27, 2006, Mississippi’s House Public Health Committee voted to approve a ban on abortion, but that bill died after the House and Senate failed to agree on compromise legislation.[59]

Several states have enacted so-called "trigger laws" which "would take effect if Roe v. Wade is overturned."[60] Those states include Illinois, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota and South Dakota.[61] Other states have passed laws to maintain the legality of abortion if Roe v. Wade is overturned, and those states include California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada and Washington.[61]

I guess Obama forgot to mention this in his McCain anti-abortion ad.

I have to read more about it...

But again, I strongly believe that waste should be taxed just as much as consumption, so that's what I can see glaringly lacking in the Fair Tax.

When I was little my superhero was Superciuk (see pic)
He stole from the poor to give to the rich and his superpower was his Barbera (red wine) breath that could kill.
I have since then changed my mind though.....

hey SevenKid, tell us what you think

My dad is one of the most famous orthopedic surgeons in Italy. he pays 60% of his income in taxes. As much as he hates to do so, he'd never accept to pay less if in return, the less fortunate couldn't afford health care. Last time we talked on the phone he told me he hopes that things (as far as the health care system is concerned) change very soon here.
In the past 3 years, we've had 2 people in our family battling brain tumor: my ex-husband (in Texas)and my brother-in-law (in Italy).
Well, enough said.

lol @ the neg.

SevenKid0505 and Infinite42, how about saying something of substance instead of negging anything you disagree with?

Maybe they disagree with how much my dad pays in taxes! I'll let him know; he'll appreciate it. LOL

You brought up a good point here, because a lot of Obama supporters believe hes brining back the troops. I've never herd him talk about the 14 permanent military bases in Iraq, or that massive complex of an embassy(the biggest in the world). As far as I know hes supported leaving 100,000 troops in Iraq, and how could you blame him. Americans have been bombing Iraq for ten years now, he'd make a lot of people on wall street mad.

Not to mention all the other countries America occupies. The only thing that will bring about true change is a new foreign policy so that the money can be spent someplace else. Tell Iran, Syria and the Saudi's to help with Iraq and get the @#$% out! You have no place there, and nobody wants you there.

ron paul would pull the troops out of iraq day one!

I'm to lazy/haven't kept up with this thread enough to know where this came from, but Ayn Rand FTW.

I don't know what that has to do with Obama's ad. John McCain IS anti-abortion, as is Sarah Palin (so far to the right that she doesn't even support abortion in the case of rape or incest). If it were up to her, she would outlaw it completely. And what you're talking about is EXACTLY what the Republican's keep bringing up when they say that Obama is a baby hater- the trigger law for Illinois was what he voted against, not medical attention for babies that are late-term aborted. Although it's a great way for the GOP to make him look like an ass, the issue he voted against had NOTHING to do with that and everything to do with what you JUST quoted.

dannysgirl - LOVE the sig.

Thanks! Haha.

I know John McCain is anti-abortion. And so is George Bush, but abortions are still legal. It's just a threat that the democrats use that isn't true. Even if McCain became president he has to convince the Supreme Court to overrule the Roe vs Wade. And time and time again with all the politicians trying to reverse it, the court refuses. These judges aren't stupid, they know not everyone believes abortion is bad. The chances of the court overturning our constitutional right to privacy under the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment is slim to none. And that's nice that Obama voted for partial birth abortion, but he also has an ad on the radio saying McCain will take womens abortion rights away!!! That's what I'm talking about!

The more important question is who are you going to vote for in the races for the house and senate in your state.