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Naked & Famous and Wings + Horns

post #1 of 57
2/27/08 at 10:00pm
Thread Starter 
I just picked up a pair of Naked and Famous jeans today, and I have to say that I'm very excited for this line. Not only are price points amazing, but the jeans are phenomenal. I just picked up the Weird Guy jean in the Vintage blue Selvage, very very heavy denim 15oz. I did have to size up though, I usually wear 28 and in these I picked up a 29. Here are some photos, I'll post some worn photos in the near future.








I also wanted to mention how great Wings + Horns jeans are. I've had these for a while now, and still haven't had the chance to wear them. Sizing is TTS, although very tight. I did take a 28, however the buttons on the button fly are so big, it's actually a pain to do them up. It's very difficult especially if you are wearing them very slim. I understand they have corrected this problem by changing the buttons they are using in the future.



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post #2 of 57
2/27/08 at 10:23pm
whoa that tag is HUGE.

This is like what I wrote in the Diesel section about how these brands take all the credit for the factory's denim.

I guess time will tell.
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post #3 of 57
2/27/08 at 11:20pm
I don't like the selvedge coin pocket... but other than that, I am hyped up for naked and famous.

I really want to try on the skinny guy and slim guy in black. Need to head downtown sometime!

edit: forgot to mention, but did you see the price points on the ones I mentioned? I think the slim guy black is $120, but not 100% sure. Not sure at all on the skinny guy black.
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post #4 of 57
2/28/08 at 12:35am
Thread Starter 
yeah, they were like 125, nothing for more than 140.
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post #5 of 57
2/28/08 at 12:52am
The quality of the N&F looks good but just like the KMWs the selvedge coin pocket ruins everything. Do all their jeans come like that?
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post #6 of 57
2/28/08 at 12:59am
^yeah, they all have it. and i agree that it ruins everything.
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post #7 of 57
2/28/08 at 1:10am
i've been reading the SuFu thread about N&F and there are lots of mixed reactions.

I'm also wondering how they can start them off at $108. That's insane. I read the owner has money so they can afford to do this. Part of starting a new denim line is undermining and losing money at first.. As soon as they get a huge fan base you can expect these prices to go up and up.
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post #8 of 57
2/28/08 at 1:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselEmployee View Post
i've been reading the SuFu thread about N&F and there are lots of mixed reactions.

I'm also wondering how they can start them off at $108. That's insane. I read the owner has money so they can afford to do this. Part of starting a new denim line is undermining and losing money at first.. As soon as they get a huge fan base you can expect these prices to go up and up.
I think that a bit of the resentment stemmed from the Iron Heart comments though, no?
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post #9 of 57
2/28/08 at 1:34am
Well not all their models are selvedge, so they don't all have the selvedge coin pocket.

And I think the Iron Heart stuff is cleared up.
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post #10 of 57
2/28/08 at 8:54am
Hey cruel, did you happen to see if they had slim guy in big slub? Thats the one I want...
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post #11 of 57
2/28/08 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blm14 View Post
Hey cruel, did you happen to see if they had slim guy in big slub? Thats the one I want...
They didn't yet, I have my eyes open for those ones. If they come in, I'll let you know.
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post #12 of 57
2/28/08 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsukasa View Post
Well not all their models are selvedge, so they don't all have the selvedge coin pocket.

And I think the Iron Heart stuff is cleared up.
from what I can tell, all the good stuff is selvage. Cruel angel, where can I find out more about Wings + Horns? The website isn't functional...

My wallet would be a lot happier if there were only 3 Dry brands to choose from.
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post #13 of 57
2/28/08 at 8:51pm
Thread Starter 
^

I guess you'd just have to google it and search around. It's a Canadian line.
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post #14 of 57
2/28/08 at 8:56pm
you don't hear much about the jeans, but there is tons of info and stockists out there for the clothing (which is pretty awesome usually)...
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post #15 of 57
2/28/08 at 10:16pm
fit pics!!! and where can we buy these?
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post #16 of 57
2/28/08 at 11:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselEmployee View Post
from what I can tell, all the good stuff is selvage.
Well it is a good indicator. Just like quality hardware, or functional cuff buttons on a suit. It doesn't guarantee quality though.

They are getting all their denim from the same mill most likely, and if not it is still all "Japanese". It just isn't possible on some cuts to have a selvedge outseam if it is tapering.

For example, APC uses the same denim in their jeans. The New Standard has selvedge on the outseam, but the New Cure does not because it is more tapered jean.
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post #17 of 57
2/29/08 at 2:26am
selvage is just icing on the cake. It's also how some brands separate their high end stuff from their entry level stuff.

I wonder if the new labels have any say in the creation of the denim or if they just buy from a selection of whatever fabrics the mills sell them.
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post #18 of 57
2/29/08 at 3:02am
As I said, not necessarily. A jean can be made out of selvedge denim, and not have selvedge details. I also wouldn't say that all selvedge denim is of higher quality than non selvedge.

My whole point of my last post was that just because they have selvedge and non selvedge models, it doesn't mean that their selvedge ones are of higher quality than their non selvedge.
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post #19 of 57
2/29/08 at 3:08am
there is lots of non-selvedge denim that is nicer than selvedge and vice versa. it has nothing to do with one being better than the other, rather just different. selvedge denim is woven on a different type of loom, that is all. you can weave shitty denim threads on a shuttle loom the same as you can weave quality denim threads on a standard loom. thats all there really is to say about it.
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post #20 of 57
2/29/08 at 3:44am
thanks guys that makes perfect sense. I was under the impression all selvage denim comes with selvage details.. at least the outseam.

given the highest quality selvage vs. non-selvage and lowest quality selvage vs. non-selvage a mill could produce with all other things being equal, would the selvage be of better quality?
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post #21 of 57
2/29/08 at 3:59am
Selvedge denim is more costly to produce, since it is made on a shuttle loom which is more narrow than a more modern projectile loom. Since it is more costly to produce, and most of these looms are located in Japanese mills, there is definitely a higher chance that it is of higher quality.

I can't really say if the denim would be of higher quality if made on the different looms. I think it really depends more on the quality of the cotton threads than the loom as jskidder already pointed out.
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post #22 of 57
2/29/08 at 4:04am
Selvage takes longer to mass produce, as a shuttle loom is actually older technology. The main advantage of selvage is a cleaner edge where the denim fabric is stitched together, making them less prone to fraying. Selvage has nothing to do w/ the quality of denim used, only the way it's stitched.
Using your example, the selvage would be better quality, since selvage is a higher quality stitching.
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post #23 of 57
2/29/08 at 4:13am
I really doubt anyone has problems with their outseam fraying.
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post #24 of 57
2/29/08 at 4:23am
true, but a cleaner edge is still more aesthetically pleasing
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post #25 of 57
2/29/08 at 6:39am
This topic comes up again and again. The key take-away is this:

You can have amazing quality selvage denim, complete crap selvage denim, amazing quality non-selvage, and crap quality non-selvage.

The fact that denim is produced on narrow looms and have self-sealed edges is neither necessary nor sufficient to make statements about quality, based solely on whether it has the selvage or not.

That said, Hisma's post (two up) points to something which generally CAN be said. Selvage denim is generally a bit more expensive to produce. We aren't talking about a HUGE difference (check cotton futures prices and you'll see what I mean) but in an industry that makes profits on margin, small differences can matter. Anyone willing to intentionally reduce margin to bring quality up on something like selvage denim is very likely to also be willing to reduce margin (or increase price point!) in other areas.

That is, even though selvage itself means bubkis, the fact that a producer took the time to use selvage denim strongly predisposes him or her to also use selvage denim that is of high quality.
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