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paypal dispute lost-- can i appeal?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
so here's the situation:

i sold a coach purse on ebay for my sister. i have pictures of the item before hand that clearly show the purse is NOT damaged.

the buyer receives the item, emails me complaining there are "wear marks through the purse" and sends pictures, and informs me the purse is being shipped back for a refund. she ships it back to me, and her delivery confirmation states that it arrived here on the 14th.

she emails me about an hour after it supposedly arrived, demanding to know where her refund is! CALM DOWN! i get home from work that night and write her back saying that i didn't have a package, but it was snowing here so sometimes my neighbors pick it up for me (i'm in a triplex) and that i'll ask them in the morning if they have it and get back to her before i go to work. i wake up the next day and she's filed a paypal dispute and emailed me AGAIN demanding her refund!

my neighbors DID in fact have the purse, and i opened the package and it DOES have the damage that she took pictures of BUT IT WASN'T THERE WHEN I SHIPPED IT OUT!!!! i log into paypal and she's filed a claim stating that i received the purse because delivery confirmation said so, and that i was refusing to refund her money! wtf! so since i didn't wish to receive anymore rude emails, i stated that i wanted to dispute her claim and sent
my message to paypal stating that:

1. i have before and after pictures of the purse with the condition of it before it was sent to her and the condition it was returned in.

2. our messages back and forth which did not whatsoever include me saying that "i didn't receive the purse and i'm not refunding her money"

3. i have a premier account with seller protection on this auction and i did everything right!


within an HOUR paypal had "investigated" and they refunded her all of her money!! so now i have no payment and a purse that i didn't damage and i feel completely SCREWED!

the email sent to me by paypal says that there should be an "appeal" button next to the case file and there's not.

is there anything i can do/does anyone have any suggestions?? i feel horrible because it's not even MY money that i'm out-- it was my sister's purse i was selling for her and now i have a crazy ebay buyer that has somehow won a paypal claim against me that shouldn't even have been an issue!

aaaaaauuuuuuuggggggghhhhhh!
post #2 of 13
i'm so sorry that happened to you. i can't offer any advice from a seller's pov but perhaps kelly or treasurehoard will be able to give you advice
post #3 of 13
I would check treasurehoards guide out. I've never dealt with anything like this before as far as filing an appeal, but I know that paypal likes to side with the buyer.
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
i know paypal likes to side with the buyer-- i've been stuck a few times before. but in this situation, it seemed RIDICULOUS that i ended up with the short end of the stick!

would calling them do anything? since i have no way of messaging them online? i sent them an email a few days ago when this all started and i don't even have a response to that yet, despite the fact that it says they'll respond within 24 hours.
post #5 of 13
OH yes, definitely give them a call. I always do that because who knows who will read your email if ever and when they do you normally get a canned response anyway.
post #6 of 13
So sorry to hear that, I hope everything works in your favor.
post #7 of 13
contact paypal and try to file an appeal.
post #8 of 13
Definately call paypal they can probably file the appeal for you over the phone. I have called them a few times once when I was going through a dispute situation & they were very helpful. I am really surprised they investigated in just an hour, I have had to go through 2 being once the buyer and once in the seller situation and both took 2 months for them to figure out! I will say that I have heard they do lean more on the buyers side but I won both my disputes even one as a seller so it can be done.

I wish you the best of luck wish I had more advice for you. It is hard to prove that the pictures were not taken and then the item was damaged before you mailed it or the damage was done on her end unfortunately. Could it have been damaged in shipping? Seems far fetched if the damage was all over but maybe you could have filed a claim with the post office if you had insured it in the first place?
post #9 of 13
Hi there!

I just wanted to share this with you. It is the story of a man who was in a similar situation with paypal—he sold a model toy car, the buyer damaged it, sent it back—same thing. He was out $213.00 and had a damaged item—same exact thing that happened to you.

He filed an appeal and the link below is the complete documentation of the process he went through-- which should give you a lot of helpful advice. He finally got his money back in the end through a lot of frustration and persistence! Here is the link:

http://www.diecastregistry.net/DiecastRegistryPayPaleBayAuctionDisputeAppea.aspx

While it is great the he won his case, paypal is famous for siding with the buyer. However, it is definitely worth it to appeal. You will need to file a police report and you should do so before appealing. Once you initiate the appeals process, you will be bound to paypal’s timeframe for submitting information. You should also file with the Internet Crime Complaint Center, which handles among many other things, ebay fraud. The link is:

http://www.ic3.gov/

A final thing that you can do is to report the seller as fraudulent to both ebay and paypal. This will not get your money back but when a buyer accrues enough complaints over time, they will be suspended from ebay and paypal. Most likely if the buyer did this to you, she has done it before and will do it again.

In the future, for more expensive items, you may want to specify a different form of payment. Have the winning bidder pay through USPS money order (wait 10 days for them to clear before—just in case they are fraudulent) Or you can tell the winner that you prefer another 3rd party financial transaction service to receive

payment. A seller once told me, as a rule never complete a transaction through paypal for an item you would be afraid to lose.

If you still want to use Paypal, you should offer a return policy. When disputes occur, Paypal does not honor a seller’s return policy anyway, so having your own return policy may cut back on the type of fraud you just encountered. I am convinced that some of the fraud occurs because a buyer buys a big ticket item and has buyers remorse, or maybe they just don’t like the item, or found it cheaper elsewhere etc—So they want to return the original item. When they don’t see a return policy, they damage the item, send picture to paypal, say they received it that way and get their money back. So sometimes, especially on expensive items, it is just worth it to offer a return policy. You may lose the $$ for that sale, but at least you can resell!

Just my 2 c’s! Hope it helps!
post #10 of 13
The guy with the diecast car got really lucky I read that story a while ago.

Basically, no, you are not going to win an appeal. You should feel lucky she sent you back anything at all.

Paypalsucks.com will show thousands of situations just like this. The only thing you can do is to boycott them. Nothing else can be done in your situation.

If the purse was over $250, she had to send with signature confirmation.

hahaha at thinking Seller protection exists. It's worthless and it is only for chargebacks for 'unauthorized' CC use if you shipped the item out already.

She probably did a CC chargeback in which case you lost instantly. Even if you win the appeal, PAYPAL CANNOT GUARANTEE RECOVERY OF FUNDS. Which means, if the buyer doesn't use paypal often and cleared out their funds, they will contact you soon after and tell you that 'you won but we cannot get your funds back for you.' which is well, bullshit.

use the paypalsucks forums, the guys there know EVERY detail of Paypal and ebay and nobody is better suited to help you than they are.

Also, do what Treasurehoard does and write 'as is' which I deduct, is a way to bypass returns for not as described items. Writing no returns will not help. You can also disable 'buyer protection' through ebay if you call paypal. This may or may not be very helpful.

If he posts, i'm curious since he has a few complaints every month and does not offer returns. I wonder how many people do chargebacks and how many of them get returns if any since they leave him bad feedback (something they probably would not do if they received a refund from paypal.) Although, I think paypal is more on your side if you are a powerseller.

And I called paypal several times during my dispute, they were always very nice until they found the buyer 'right' then they become nasty and tell you that their decision is final and that they cannot help you.

One last thing keep this in mind, as a seller you are almost ALWAYS at fault. If you wish to use Paypal and Ebay you have to have a JCPenny Return Policy. Which is to take back dirty panties with a smile.

I learned this from Amazon where they tell you 'if you wish to sell, please know that returns are a natural part of a purchase and you must accept them under all circumstances or you cannot represent the Amazon sellers Marketplace...' or some BS. Ebay is heading that way too..
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
well that's pretty much what happened. i called to place a appeal since the "appeal" button they informed me was online didn't exist. he said he was going to place the appeal and it would show up on my paypal page. it didn't. ever. not even TWO weeks later.

then i get an email from paypal regarding a message i had sent them in the very beginning- before a claim was even MADE- from january 15th. it pretty much said that "we're sorry, but the buyer has opened a "item significantly not as described" claim and has won." and said no mention of my appeal, what happened with the claim, etc.

can google checkout move up the monopoly? i'm tired of paypal's shit. they're a horrible company.
post #12 of 13
yeah I heard good things about google checkout. Too bad ebay doesn't allow us to use it in auctions I don't believe. I am sure google will kill paypal in a couple of years.

Same thing happened to me, EXACTLY. They said we will open a dispute and then respond weeks later to a previous email. Luckily my Item (Wii) arrived back in New condition so I resold it but I shudder to think what could have arrived and she would have received her money just the same.
post #13 of 13
This may be a bit late.....but you can try to appeal Paypal's decision

Send a long, polite, explanation letter to: appeal@paypal.com

Include in the subject title your case number PP-XXX-XXX-XXX etc

Attach the pictures/documents, evidence of proof. Try calling customer service too, if you get a nice one on the phone, they can help direct you in the appeal process.

<------ credibility? I recently went through a Paypal open case resolution, and the customer rep directed me to the appeal email, and it worked for me.
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