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So this one time at banned camp... - Page 3  

post #51 of 274
Did you ever ban anyone for a comment made in a PM?
post #52 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey60622 View Post
I have to say...

I have seen/heard of several instances where a mod knew something that could really only have come from having read a PM.

No...I can't say what or who...

But I stopped treating my private messages here like they were private a long time ago. If I have something private to say to another member, I email them.

Question: If NAV had emailed his comment to FM, would he have been banned?

I'm just trying to sort out the level to which HF considers they have a right to control/dictate the language of their members. I can understand dictating language on a public forum and what is being broadcast, however, when such control delves into private messages, I find that the issue is muddied considerably.

Also, I am wondering why it is that some offenses...like blatant racism, are put up for votes on the moderators board, while calling someone a foul name in a private message is not. This suggests to me that calling someone a name is worse than being a big nasty racist. Is that really HFs position?

wow Casey, you've done it again
post #53 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey60622 View Post

Also, I am wondering why it is that some offenses...like blatant racism, are put up for votes on the moderators board, while calling someone a foul name in a private message is not. This suggests to me that calling someone a name is worse than being a big nasty racist. Is that really HFs position?
Not to call you out Casey, but whats your definition of blatant racism? Whats blatant to you may not be so blatant to others. Unless its an obvious racial slur ect. We are not exactly trying to harbour racists here.

I was called racist in a thread here because I said " my colored freinds" instead of " my freinds of color" when trying to describe the massive amount of ethnic groups I hang out with on a constant basis. Apparently differences in gramer make me a racist bastard.

Many people have also stated facts about minority groups ( proven facts) and people jump down their throats and call them racist because they reflect said group in a negative light,( or not an overly positive one).

I have seen people ( usually the same ones) immidiatly scream racism for the smallest things ( because they interpreted it as being racist), and then post numerous posts in a thread to try and force their opinions down others throats without actually offering a real fact based argument of any kind.

Usually its just repeating insulting phrases towards the supposed offending member over and over again.

Some people here also like to whine and cause drama about every little thing because they think it makes them look like better people ( not meaning anyone in particular, just in general)

Everyone has to lighten the hell up and stop searching for hidden meanings in posts and stop picking apart peoples statements word for word.

I swear to god, some members follow others from post to post just to start shit. I read responses from the same 2 people going at each other all the time.

I personally dont agree with allowing private message content to be used in banning people. I believe private messages should be just that, private.

But thats also not for me to decide as its not my site

Cant we all just talk about fashion & worldly events and leave the personal bashing and drama alone for a while?
post #54 of 274
The two members who were banned for racial slurs...I don't think that there should need to have been any debate in either of those cases. It was clear. I mean, really, really clear. Not a grammar slip from someone who has not shown racist tendencies in a myriad of other posts. These were obvious. I won't repeat them.

On the other hand, banning NAV for calling someone a foul name in a PM...well, I see some room for interpretation.

My question is just why are some things debated and some are not?

As a side note, I hope you don't mean me when you are talking about not offering real fact based arguments...If you do, please PM me, because we need to talk. It is very hard to disprove a racist argument without saying "this is racist." Posting a stat about a minority does not prove anything about that minority without context. As Lauriebell is very good about reminding us, correlation does not equal causality.

I've been *trying* to avoid said discussions...primarily because we do have several racists in residence here, and they do insert their racism into just about every attempt at a reasonable debate.

I don't want to get off topic though...this is not about the racists...this is about my lack of understanding as to when/how banning will be applied.

A private message, as many people have said, is private. I don't understand how THAT can be issued an immediate, no vote ban while saying truly repugnant things about African-Americans gets debated for a couple days after multiple complaints.

I want to know if ALL communications between HF members fall under HF jurisdiction. If I call NAV a c*nt in an email and he sends it to Dave...will I be banned? What about a person who impersonates a member of this forum on another forum. Does that get discussed in committee?

I've managed to keep clear of most of the drama of late...mainly by keeping clear of HF for days at a time. Kinda sad. I'd rather we could all talk about fashion, worldly events and sex like we used to.
post #55 of 274
post #56 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey60622 View Post

As a side note, I hope you don't mean me when you are talking about not offering real fact based arguments...If you do, please PM me, because we need to talk. It is very hard to disprove a racist argument without saying "this is racist." Posting a stat about a minority does not prove anything about that minority without context. As Lauriebell is very good about reminding us, correlation does not equal causality.
I dont mean you specificly hun, just some people in general here...

I would have pmd you if I had a problem...

People need to sit back and take a breather.

Debate is one thing, but the term "racist, evil, stupid, asshole" ect are being thrown around way too much, and to loosely lately.

And usually at people for no good reason, solely because THEY THEMSELVES interpreted a persons statement to be racialy motivated.

Saying slurs is one thing, but my example of what happened to me is a perfect one to show how people misconstrue and alter statements solely for the purpose of causing drama, and then trying to make themselves look like the saints and saviors of dignity by trying to take a chunk out of said person.
post #57 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenKid0505 View Post

Hey Seven, what is that, just wondering?
post #58 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUTUP View Post
I dont mean you specificly hun, just some people in general here...

I would have pmd you if I had a problem...

People need to sit back and take a breather.

Debate is one thing, but the term "racist, evil, stupid, asshole" ect are being thrown around way too much, and to loosely lately.

And usually at people for no good reason, solely because THEY THEMSELVES interpreted a persons statement to be racialy motivated.

Saying slurs is one thing, but my example of what happened to me is a perfect one to show how people misconstrue and alter statements solely for the purpose of causing drama, and then trying to make themselves look like the saints and saviors of dignity by trying to take a chunk out of said person.
If someone tells me that I am in an interrracial relationship because I am fat and ugly and apparently can't find a man of my own race that's good enough, is that being racist, or an asshole, or neither? Just wondering....
post #59 of 274
Thread Starter 
very well layed out, casey, but unfortunately, we can forget about it. i PMed honestdave my last post in this thread as a more formal request for an explanation, and his reply back was just, "please just be more respectful so we don't continue to have problems like this." [btw, i'm assuming that publicly posting other people's private message, along with slander, is now permitted on honestforum.] wow, talk about a dickish response. i'm not surprised though - he's NEVER ever tried to apologize for anything. even that one time i created a thread in drama asking that threads be locked with an explanation, and dave goes ahead and negs it and then a week later, he starts a thread in chat explaining how his threads were locked with no explanation on another site so he will now lock threads with explanations now. power trip? whatever, i'm just glad i tried.

bottomline: honestdave will never apologize and he will never concede to anyone's request. i'm letting it go now seeing that there's nothing i can do without getting another "BANNED!" above my current "BANNED!" in my aquaman fish avatar which you all can further familiarize yourself with from 0:35 to 0:22 left; this familiarization will also greatly improve the quality of your life:



"dr. katz" was one of those cartoons that i never understood when i was a wee little kid, but now that i'm all grown up and have filled out rather nicely, i am able to appreciate the magic that is "dr. katz." it has a certain kind of warm-and-fuzzies inducing charm that has only been experienced with one other television show, animated or not - "sesame fucking street."

thoughts?
post #60 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey60622 View Post
The two members who were banned for racial slurs...I don't think that there should need to have been any debate in either of those cases. It was clear. I mean, really, really clear. Not a grammar slip from someone who has not shown racist tendencies in a myriad of other posts. These were obvious. I won't repeat them.

On the other hand, banning NAV for calling someone a foul name in a PM...well, I see some room for interpretation.

My question is just why are some things debated and some are not?
As a side note, I hope you don't mean me when you are talking about not offering real fact based arguments...If you do, please PM me, because we need to talk. It is very hard to disprove a racist argument without saying "this is racist." Posting a stat about a minority does not prove anything about that minority without context. As Lauriebell is very good about reminding us, correlation does not equal causality.

I've been *trying* to avoid said discussions...primarily because we do have several racists in residence here, and they do insert their racism into just about every attempt at a reasonable debate.

I don't want to get off topic though...this is not about the racists...this is about my lack of understanding as to when/how banning will be applied.
A private message, as many people have said, is private. I don't understand how THAT can be issued an immediate, no vote ban while saying truly repugnant things about African-Americans gets debated for a couple days after multiple complaints.

I want to know if ALL communications between HF members fall under HF jurisdiction. If I call NAV a c*nt in an email and he sends it to Dave...will I be banned? What about a person who impersonates a member of this forum on another forum. Does that get discussed in committee?

I've managed to keep clear of most of the drama of late...mainly by keeping clear of HF for days at a time. Kinda sad. I'd rather we could all talk about fashion, worldly events and sex like we used to.
IMO, it has much to do with the fact that there is so much freaking drama that we (mods volunteering) can't possibly sift through all of it and vote on every single incident. Apparently the c*nt pm struck a note with dave and he went ahead and banned NAV. maybe it was not just that but the "dramatic" events that lead up to that PM.
post #61 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by princess_anne View Post
If someone tells me that I am in an interrracial relationship because I am fat and ugly and apparently can't find a man of my own race that's good enough, is that being racist, or an asshole, or neither? Just wondering....


Thats obviously a racist comment ( and a disgusting personal attack as well), but where the hell did that come from?

My main point here though is that other comments can be viewed in many different ways depending on who is doing the viewing.

I, like almost everyone here, doesnt condone racism by any means, but if someone here cant mention anything that involves a race other then their own in a somewhat negative light ( or even disagreeing with someone of another race) without being branded as racist, then thats pathetic. It also hurts the whole race situation more then it helps.

Where did we go so wrong that we cant have an open ended conversation, devoid of malice and hate, without someone playing the race card?

Anyways, thats all Im saying about this topic. I dont want to redirect this thread any more then it already has been.
post #62 of 274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesamarie33 View Post
maybe it was not just that but the "dramatic" events that lead up to that PM.
OKAY, HOLD UP RIGHT THERE. this seems to suggest that FM were complaining to dave about me well before, and specifically with those false accusations which i've repeatedly pointed out as slander. if this is the case, this is pretty fucking sad. on what grounds would dave have to blindly believe any accusation? i've repeatedly asked FM for examples of these accusation, and none have ever come up, but i guess if this was the case, dave just likes FM and that is enough for him. how fucking dandy.

but more ironically, it is EXACTLY these "dramatic" events that lead up to the PM that is why FM deserved the ban a LOT more than i did. dave said i need to be more respectful, so i guess if someone is disrespecting me in the first place (and in this case, with slander), i don't have a right to be angry. ridiculous.
post #63 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by casey60622 View Post
Did you ever ban anyone for a comment made in a PM?
I never actually banned anybody for anything EXCEPT when it was a new ID on someone who'd already been banned. Dave and I worked together on the ban stuff and usually he was the one who actually did it.
post #64 of 274
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUTUP
My main point here though is that other comments can be viewed in many different ways depending on who is doing the viewing.
CUTUP, while i agree with your message, i don't think this is at all what casey and company are saying. while your message is true, it doesn't address the point of contention here.
post #65 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
CUTUP, while i agree with your message, i don't think this is at all what casey and company are saying. while your message is true, it doesn't address the point of contention here.
I understand Tim, it wasnt directed at your situation, but at the fact that Casey mentioned
Quote:
"Also, I am wondering why it is that some offenses...like blatant racism, are put up for votes on the moderators board, while calling someone a foul name in a private message is not. This suggests to me that calling someone a name is worse than being a big nasty racist. Is that really HFs position?
She made it sound as though all of us mods are fine with racism, but not with rude talk via pms. Which couldnt be further from the truth.

I had to jump in on that statement and defend us mods. I dont always agree with Casey, but that doesnt mean I dont respect her views. She is entitled to her opinions, just as I am.

And as far as your situation is concerned, I didnt agree with what happened either. So I will leave it at that.
post #66 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUTUP View Post
Thats obviously a racist comment ( and a disgusting personal attack as well), but where the hell did that come from?

My main point here though is that other comments can be viewed in many different ways depending on who is doing the viewing.

I, like almost everyone here, doesnt condone racism by any means, but if someone here cant mention anything that involves a race other then their own in a somewhat negative light ( or even disagreeing with someone of another race) without being branded as racist, then thats pathetic. It also hurts the whole race situation more then it helps.

Where did we go so wrong that we cant have an open ended conversation, devoid of malice and hate, without someone playing the race card?

Anyways, thats all Im saying about this topic. I dont want to redirect this thread any more then it already has been.
I see your point, but in my short personal experience on this board, the most alarming and disturbing (and personally directed) unsolicited PMs came from a member who was banned for racist comments, and I no longer can defend that member. I'm pretty horrified, actually, at the vile crap that showed up in my inbox. It pretty much confirmed why the member was banned. I've never heard anything like it. sorry for the continued threadcrap.
post #67 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by blm14 View Post
I never actually banned anybody for anything EXCEPT when it was a new ID on someone who'd already been banned. Dave and I worked together on the ban stuff and usually he was the one who actually did it.

WHy do you have a beer me link and talk like a you are/were a mod?

I'm guessing you ARE a moderator here?

For some reason that fact is not displayed above your avatar, at least on my screen. I think you should fix this. I kinda feel it's my right to know who's a mod and who isn't.

BTW I like your avatar, it's kinda sweet.
post #68 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbie_az View Post
Hey Seven, what is that, just wondering?
Clearly a blatantly racist attack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denimobsessed View Post
WHy do you have a beer me link and talk like a you are/were a mod?

I'm guessing you ARE a moderator here?

For some reason that fact is not displayed above your avatar, at least on my screen. I think you should fix this. I kinda feel it's my right to know who's a mod and who isn't.

BTW I like your avatar, it's kinda sweet.
Ben used to be a moderator here, I think his current status is something along the lines of "Jeanius".
post #69 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
, so i guess if someone is disrespecting me in the first place (and in this case, with slander), i don't have a right to be angry.
Babe, you know I have no beef with you and what I am about to say has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on your temp ban, that said...

While you have every right to be angry when feeling attacked, I believe everyone is still responsible for how they react.

I would love to debate issues on this board, but for some reason, not everyone can discuss things as articulately as Casey & Chris, without resorting to personal attacks and judgements.

I really feel like finding one of those posters and posting it here, "Everything I need To Know In Life I learned In Kindergarten" Sounds so silly, but the older I get the truer it is.

PS glad to see you back
post #70 of 274
Thread Starter 
thanks, i'm glad to be back too.

i think you may be missing the points i was trying to illustrate in my bold-faced quote:

1. i was highlighting how it seems *i* don't have a right to "disrespect/be angry at" someone. either give me the right as well or don't give anyone the right. it's a call to the inconsistency.

2. yes, i am saying that my PM was "responsible." "cunt" was interjected to emphasize my anger (yes, i actually did sit there writing my PM wondering how i can make it more obvious that i'm serious and upset about this, and decided that "cunt" would do the job as a literary device, not as a "low blow"). i also see no logical or ethical reason why the word, "cunt," should be forbidden other than for PC reasons. do i call people "cunt" in public even facetiously? unless i know them closely, no, but not because i subscribe to PC, but because it's not worth explaining myself everytime. i also do not subscribe to double-standards, e.g. you can call men "cunts" but not so with women. if i understand correctly, america is the only place in the world that makes such a big deal out of the word. in other words, if one can't even offer a cogent explanation why calling someone a "cunt" is ban-worthy, one is left to assume it is for emotionally self-serving reasons.

p.s. i don't mind a good debate, as it's really not that hard to ignore personal attacks mounted as opinion or judgment statements (as opposed to fact, and i don't see that as a problem here on HF...just ignore the ad hominem if it's really bothersome).

p.p.s. i still would like a clarification from leesamarie33 about what she meant by "dramatic events leading up to the PM." and even if that were the case, why were those reasons not included by dave on why i was banned?
post #71 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by denimobsessed View Post
WHy do you have a beer me link and talk like a you are/were a mod?

I'm guessing you ARE a moderator here?

For some reason that fact is not displayed above your avatar, at least on my screen. I think you should fix this. I kinda feel it's my right to know who's a mod and who isn't.

BTW I like your avatar, it's kinda sweet.
You probably havent been here long enough. For about a year, I had the same rights and responsibilities as lauriebell (plus some!)
post #72 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
OKAY, HOLD UP RIGHT THERE. this seems to suggest that FM were complaining to dave about me well before, and specifically with those false accusations which i've repeatedly pointed out as slander. if this is the case, this is pretty fucking sad. on what grounds would dave have to blindly believe any accusation? i've repeatedly asked FM for examples of these accusation, and none have ever come up, but i guess if this was the case, dave just likes FM and that is enough for him. how fucking dandy.

but more ironically, it is EXACTLY these "dramatic" events that lead up to the PM that is why FM deserved the ban a LOT more than i did. dave said i need to be more respectful, so i guess if someone is disrespecting me in the first place (and in this case, with slander), i don't have a right to be angry. ridiculous.
I went to bed last night NAV, that why I didnt respond right away. Ok, I am not trying to say that FM didn't deserve a ban and you did. Actually I don't think you should've been banned due to the PM. I agree with others that PM's should be considered private and I would much rather have members fight and insult eachother via PM than on the board here.
As far as all the "dramatic events" leading up to it, I'm talking about the stuff between you and FM - calling her out here in drama is an example.
More importantly though- even though you were not necessarily the cause of all the drama that was going on at the time, there was alot of fighting, insulting, ranting on the forum in those few days leading up to your ban. Maybe dave took out his frustration on you? I dont really know.

Anyway, for me the bottom line is this: MAny members here seem to feel that they are entitled to a written explanation as to every decision that is made on HF - why they were warned, why threads are locked, why they were banned, why rules are written as they are, why wasnt someone else banned, etc. I think people need to be reminded that the members don't own this forum. I dont necessarily agree with every decision dave makes here, but its his forum and if he makes a decision that i dont agree with, i sure as hell am not going to start a thread asking for explanations. Some people here behave like children - "Why did I get punished and she didnt? He started it!" ( NAV, I am not singling you out here at all so please don't think I am. I typically love reading your posts - especially when they are not in the drama section. ) Like every parent has told their child one time or another - "Because I'm the boss, thats why" Seriously though, imo it should be as simple as that - "because dave or the mods feel that you broke a rule" period. Whether or not people interpret the rules differently is just too difficult to even be considered. Again, I dont agree with everything dave does, but if I was really unhappy with it here, then I would just leave here. Its that simple - for me anyway.

The mods have a hard time keeping up with all the ridiculous BS that goes on. We often struggle with making the decisions rgarding what is offensive and drama-inciting vs. voicing one's opinion, etc. Its impossible to please everyone regarding these matters. It seems to me that dave is trying to be somewhat lenient with the rules here so that people will be able to carry on with heated discussions like adults. but then the usual scenario ensues - members become rude, childish, disrespectful - threads get locked, some people get banned, others dont get banned, and the perpetrators demand answers as to how/why decisions were made. Look - Kelly tries to do the right thing by locking threads and then members want to know how she differentiates between what is lockable and what isnt???
If it were my site, I would have a well-defined set of rules, ask mods to lock alot more threads, hand out warnings when the name-calling starts, rules are being broken, STRICTLY enforce the rules and then refer to them - no further explanation would be given.
I realize there are a group of members here who don't feel any rules or boundaries are necessary, but I dont think it works.
post #73 of 274
Thread Starter 
leesamarie33, thanks for the clarification.

regarding the dramatic events, i don't even know what drama you are talking about, because i totally stayed out of it all. it wasn't until somebody told me that FM started talking shit about me, and sure enough, she started making shit up about me out of the blue in 3 separate threads. even my calling-her-out thread in drama was nothing more than asking her to provide an example of her slander (you can click on it if you forgot) after she kept ignoring all my PMs (those without the word, "cunt") asking for an example. you can imagine how i felt by that point.

as for your second paragraph, level-headed adults also ask for explanations everyday when they feel they've been grossly penalized unfairly. in fact, i'd say it's the healthy thing to do to speak up assertively rather than be passive about it. i don't agree with your description of this behavior as childish, simply because children also do it.

as for your last paragraph, i think nearly all of us really do appreciate and understand the time and energy moderating demands. i don't understand how these reminders justify dave's decisions though.

i agree that there needs to be rules and boundaries, but people, myself included, develop resentment and lose respect for them when they aren't even respected by the creator and enforcer him/herself.
post #74 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
leesamarie33, thanks for the clarification.

regarding the dramatic events, i don't even know what drama you are talking about, because i totally stayed out of it all. it wasn't until somebody told me that FM started talking shit about me, and sure enough, she started making shit up about me out of the blue in 3 separate threads. even my calling-her-out thread in drama was nothing more than asking her to provide an example of her slander (you can click on it if you forgot) after she kept ignoring all my PMs (those without the word, "cunt") asking for an example. you can imagine how i felt by that point.
yes, i can see why you would have been extremely frustrated. As I said earlier, there was so much drama going on during that time - even though it didn't necessarliy involve you. The mod section was bombarded with posts being reported by members, it was a little overwhelming.

Quote:
as for your second paragraph, level-headed adults also ask for explanations everyday when they feel they've been grossly penalized unfairly. in fact, i'd say it's the healthy thing to do to speak up assertively rather than be passive about it. i don't agree with your description of this behavior as childish, simply because children also do it.
I understand your point but I don't believe that all of the members who have been warned/banned were necessarily penalized unfairly. I agree that in the past, there may have been a couple of quick decisions made in the heat of the moment that were incorrect ones. My post was meant in a broader sense - forum members feeling that mods/admin are too strict with enforcing the rules and want detailed explanations for every decision made. IMO - the rules are not enforced strictly enough and THAT is the root of all the drama at HF.
post #75 of 274
I would like to report that I am still getting pms of support from forum members in regards to this drama. As for me, I have an IRL life and I've not been back to sift through this ridiculousness until today. I see it hasn't gone away. I think some people might be taking HF just a little to seriously. Of course, this is all IMHO.
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