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Thank God I live in America - Page 10

post #226 of 307
indiana jones is at least 20 times older than me, yet he one-ups me in every possible opportunity to explore and discover
post #227 of 307
That's not what I meant. My perspective is different. Not better/worse, just different .
post #228 of 307
different because of age/experience? or different because you are a unique and different flower?
post #229 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
okay, now that is truly interesting and i was not made privy of this historical detail until now. but now i am curious - what was the initial reason for the civil stated to the public then?
Southern states seceded, eventually forming the nation known as the Confederate States of America. The state of South Carolina declared it would not allow U.S. ships to resupply forts in its borders, but would compensate the U.S. for the land and building. The ship U.S.S. Star of the West attempted to resupply Fort Sumter by invading territorial waters of South Carolina, but was turned back by South Carolina's gunfire.

Shortly thereafter, South Carolina retaliated by firing on Fort Sumter, causing the surrender of the Union forces there. They were technically retaliating, but it was stated to the Union that South Carolina (and the Confederacy) attacked the Union unprovoked, which lost them massive support in the North. Many Northerners supported the secession and did not want war (although Lincoln did) until Fort Sumter fell. A Union newspaper that was pro-secession wrote that with the fall of Fort Sumter, so fell the sympathies of the North.

Slavery was involved in the decision to secede for most states, but was not the only reason: the continued tariffs designed to murder the economies of Southern states, state's rights (the federal government telling the state governments what to do), the taxes that funnelled Southern money into the first "socialist" policies of the country (known as "internal improvements", which is why the CSA constitution explicitly clarified the Commerce clause) that benefitted only the North - these all had a large impact on the decision to secede.

The Emancipation Proclamation was designed to do nothing but PR. It freed slaves in territory in the Confederate states. It even went down to free slaves only in Louisiana parishes that the Union had not captured yet - making sure slavery still existed in Union territory. It was mainly designed to keep Britain and France out of the war. The Proclamation also did not happen until over a year into the War.
post #230 of 307
Because I'm o.l.d.e.r. The same methods of argument sometimes do not apply. All the conversation is great. ONE persons' experience doesn't help here. This is an exchange of ideas as opposed to personal attacks.(mostly)
I was the moderator for debate teams. Always. Remember the AF politico test?
I'm Ghandi

I am a petite flower. not.
post #231 of 307
begret: Like, a communist? I don't think communists believe in Diesel jeans. :P
post #232 of 307
sweet. sounds like a script for a season of "24" where jack bauer finds a time machine to travel back to the mid 1800's. and can you believe this was only 150 year ago? time flies.
post #233 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by begret View Post
Because I'm o.l.d.e.r. The same methods of argument sometimes do not apply. All the conversation is great. ONE persons' experience doesn't help here. This is an exchange of ideas as opposed to personal attacks.(mostly)
I was the moderator for debate teams. Always. Remember the AF politico test?
I'm Ghandi

I am a petite flower. not.
i still don't see how age would change the rules of logic. i just think you are a unique and different flower. i'm more of a weed myself though.
post #234 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar View Post
begret: Like, a communist? I don't think communists believe in Diesel jeans. :P
OH no. I'm a capitalist hyena w/ the best Ayn Rand???

My Grandparents escaped Russia in 1919 (3 of them) and they took all their jewels w/them. Lenin be damned.

I still love Frida Kahlo though.
post #235 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by begret View Post
OH no. I'm a capitalist hyena w/ the best Ayn Rand???
In that case, according to Zeitgeist, you're as bad as a communist.
post #236 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite42 View Post
In that case, according to Zeitgeist, you're as bad as a communist.
I'll listen if he'll tell me why, not w/factoid babble but with a personal viewpoint w/ background. Ayn Rand is an exaggeration but, good eye.




Stiiiilllll love Frida Kahlo even though she had an affair with Trotsky.
post #237 of 307
begret: Ghandi on that chart was pro individual freedom and VERY anti economic freedom, wasn't he? Ayn Rand is awesome.

NAV: I'm in a class at the Law School called "American Law and the Rhetoric of Race" - we're reading court cases from the antebellum South and then Reconstruction through Brown v. Board - it's hard to believe that 150 years ago the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court wrote that blacks are "beings of an inferior order, and altogether unfit to associate with the white race, either in social or political relations, and so far inferior that they had no rights which the white man was bound to respect."
post #238 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar View Post
Southern states seceded, eventually forming the nation known as the Confederate States of America. The state of South Carolina declared it would not allow U.S. ships to resupply forts in its borders, but would compensate the U.S. for the land and building. The ship U.S.S. Star of the West attempted to resupply Fort Sumter by invading territorial waters of South Carolina, but was turned back by South Carolina's gunfire.

Shortly thereafter, South Carolina retaliated by firing on Fort Sumter, causing the surrender of the Union forces there. They were technically retaliating, but it was stated to the Union that South Carolina (and the Confederacy) attacked the Union unprovoked, which lost them massive support in the North. Many Northerners supported the secession and did not want war (although Lincoln did) until Fort Sumter fell. A Union newspaper that was pro-secession wrote that with the fall of Fort Sumter, so fell the sympathies of the North.

Slavery was involved in the decision to secede for most states, but was not the only reason: the continued tariffs designed to murder the economies of Southern states, state's rights (the federal government telling the state governments what to do), the taxes that funnelled Southern money into the first "socialist" policies of the country (known as "internal improvements", which is why the CSA constitution explicitly clarified the Commerce clause) that benefitted only the North - these all had a large impact on the decision to secede.

The Emancipation Proclamation was designed to do nothing but PR. It freed slaves in territory in the Confederate states. It even went down to free slaves only in Louisiana parishes that the Union had not captured yet - making sure slavery still existed in Union territory. It was mainly designed to keep Britain and France out of the war. The Proclamation also did not happen until over a year into the War.
yay...someone who knows their history!

+1
post #239 of 307
Thanks, laurie.
post #240 of 307
Avatar.. I was a little perplexed actually, i took that test w/my heart not my head. But that's the rub. My dot was exact!

'We the Living 'was required reading in our family as it took place at the exact time of my family escaping Russia, I have a sneaking hunch my grandma was involved with that 'crowd' . There's really no concrete evidence.
The point is, her experience completely shaped her beliefs in a very dramatic way, when she was a teenager. Crawling over the border and basically walking across China. They were chased out of there too.
post #241 of 307
"We the Living" is a VERY powerful and moving book. "Atlas" was obviously her masterpiece, but "We the Living" was absolutely amazing and should be required reading for anyone.
post #242 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar View Post
"We the Living" is a VERY powerful and moving book. "Atlas" was obviously her masterpiece, but "We the Living" was absolutely amazing and should be required reading for anyone.
Yes, it should. It is very personal. It's a small book.
post #243 of 307
What else of hers have you read?
post #244 of 307
Well hello, all fiction, a few of the older non fiction, We the Living still my favourite, Atlas Shrugged is magnificent.

New intellectual
Virtue of Selfishness ?
Romantic Manifesto

Philosophy; Who needs it? <<<< a personal fave. I should probably read these all again and see how differently I perceive them.
post #245 of 307
The sig

Mine says I ride to live I live to ride, nothing as profound btw.
post #246 of 307
The fiction is fabulous. I've read some of the nonfiction too.
post #247 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar View Post
The fiction is fabulous. I've read some of the nonfiction too.
Atlas Shrugged is a book that is impossible to explain unless you've read it. You LIVE that book, it is a world in itself. Even if you do not 'agree' with the premise it is an incredible piece of work. Avatar, you should read some of the non fiction, it is a very interesting companion to her fiction.
I like to read both fiction/non fiction from the same writer!





I must go spend some $$$ now
post #248 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar View Post
Southern states seceded, eventually forming the nation known as the Confederate States of America. The state of South Carolina declared it would not allow U.S. ships to resupply forts in its borders, but would compensate the U.S. for the land and building. The ship U.S.S. Star of the West attempted to resupply Fort Sumter by invading territorial waters of South Carolina, but was turned back by South Carolina's gunfire.

Shortly thereafter, South Carolina retaliated by firing on Fort Sumter, causing the surrender of the Union forces there. They were technically retaliating, but it was stated to the Union that South Carolina (and the Confederacy) attacked the Union unprovoked, which lost them massive support in the North. Many Northerners supported the secession and did not want war (although Lincoln did) until Fort Sumter fell. A Union newspaper that was pro-secession wrote that with the fall of Fort Sumter, so fell the sympathies of the North.

Slavery was involved in the decision to secede for most states, but was not the only reason: the continued tariffs designed to murder the economies of Southern states, state's rights (the federal government telling the state governments what to do), the taxes that funnelled Southern money into the first "socialist" policies of the country (known as "internal improvements", which is why the CSA constitution explicitly clarified the Commerce clause) that benefitted only the North - these all had a large impact on the decision to secede.

The Emancipation Proclamation was designed to do nothing but PR. It freed slaves in territory in the Confederate states. It even went down to free slaves only in Louisiana parishes that the Union had not captured yet - making sure slavery still existed in Union territory. It was mainly designed to keep Britain and France out of the war. The Proclamation also did not happen until over a year into the War.
AMEN thank you for knowing exactly what you are talking about.. this thread has gone crazy and I did not feel like reading it all but when I saw mention of my beloved state and in my mind God's country I wanted to make sure the facts were right. Thank you for getting the history right.
post #249 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by begret View Post
Atlas Shrugged is a book that is impossible to explain unless you've read it. You LIVE that book, it is a world in itself. Even if you do not 'agree' with the premise it is an incredible piece of work.

very much agreed, better then Fountainhead imo ... Atlas Shrugged is a book to be read before it can be discussed
post #250 of 307
I've read Atlas Shrugged and I'd class it with the fantasy books I've read, because that's where the premise belongs, in a world that's not ours.
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