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Thank God I live in America

post #1 of 307
Thread Starter 
Could you imagine living uder this goverment....


Quote:
Report: Serial Killers Cleared by Iranian Supreme Court as Victims' Activities Were Un-Islamic
Sunday , April 15, 2007

The Iranian Supreme Court has vacated the murder convictions of a group of serial killers because their victims were engaging in un-Islamic activities, the British Broadcasting Corp. reports.
The men were convicted for a series of grisly killings in the southeastern city of Kerman in 2002. The vigilantes were said to believe that Islam condoned the killing of anyone engaged in illicit activities if they issued two warnings to the victims, the BBC reports.
At least 18 people were killed on the murder spree, but the men were only tried for five of the deaths. Some of the victims were stoned, others were suffocated and at least one man was buried alive, according to the vigilantes' confessions.
These men told the court that their understanding of the teachings of one Islamic cleric allowed them to kill immoral people if they had ignored two warnings to stop their bad behavior, according to the BBC.
The Supreme Court has overturned the verdict of a lower court that found all the men guilty of murder five times, according to lawyers for the victims' families. The vigilantes may still be liable for monetary damages
post #2 of 307
nevermind, it's not worth it.
post #3 of 307
i wouldnt believe all of the propaganda. what is the source?
post #4 of 307
I am not suprised

I read a story in the Times ( if I recall correctly) where a mans daughter was to be wed ( to an abusive jerk) and she was caught professing her love to a man she had been in love with since childhood. Not sexualy expressing, just talking.

Her punishment, she was allowed to be raped by the uncles/brothers ect of the grooms family in court while the father watched on.

This was punishment doled out for "dishonering" the grooms family

When you base your entire law/social system on a book which is left to be open to peoples own interpetations, you are asking for trouble.

Especially when its a society where the extremists of that religion beleive that women are second class citizens ( and are still tring to hold them down), and that any deviation whatsoever from their beleifs gives other members of said religion the right to throw acid on peoples faces or stone/kill people publicly with no punishment hereafter

I have a few freinds who are from the middle east, and situations like the one I mentioned above are commenplace, as they dont deem it to be harsh treatment or unfair.
post #5 of 307
I like living here, too.
But our country is only a couple hundred years old, who knows what's going to be happening in a couple thousand years.

Callire is probably right though.*sigh*
post #6 of 307
Excellent BBC documentary on life in Iran:

Rageh inside iran - Google Video
post #7 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
Excellent BBC documentary on life in Iran:

Rageh inside iran - Google Video
Good documentary. I've seen it.
post #8 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by notfrostyjosh View Post
i wouldnt believe all of the propaganda. what is the source?
Plus one for thinking for yourself.
post #9 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by CUTUP View Post

When you base your entire law/social system on a book which is left to be open to peoples own interpetations, you are asking for trouble.
oh yeah cause we all know the laws in the USA and Canada aren't based on anything like that...
post #10 of 307
article has a LOT of propaganda red flags.

+1 for nfj as well
post #11 of 307
Thread Starter 
ok without even getting into the religious aspect, I am just glad our justice system doesn't allow citizen's in the street to basically go hunt offender's. I mean if I am ever attacked, I will defend myself, but I am not looking for people to punish because they are not living in a way I deem appropriate.

oh, here is the link for the story,

FOXNews.com - Report: Serial Killers Cleared by Iranian Supreme Court as Victims' Activities Were Un-Islamic - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
post #12 of 307
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
article has a LOT of propaganda red flags.
alright babe, what are the propaganda red flags, so I can 'look' for these myself?

I just don't find this story so out there considering their society.
post #13 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenics View Post
ok without even getting into the religious aspect, I am just glad our justice system doesn't allow citizen's in the street to basically go hunt offender's. I mean if I am ever attacked, I will defend myself, but I am not looking for people to punish because they are not living in a way I deem appropriate.

oh, here is the link for the story,

FOXNews.com - Report: Serial Killers Cleared by Iranian Supreme Court as Victims' Activities Were Un-Islamic - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Fox news?? I may as well get my information on the blacks and jews from the KKK.
post #14 of 307
Thread Starter 
woah, that was uncalled for
post #15 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruel_angel View Post
oh yeah cause we all know the laws in the USA and Canada aren't based on anything like that...
OK. You show me the last time in Canada where someone was raped, stoned to death, or had acid thrown at them for bringing shame or dishoner to there families. I would love to hear it.

Our laws are also far from perfect, but comparing what goes on in the middle east to how law and peoples rights are handled here is not exactly a fair comparison.

I never said the above story was true, I said I wouldnt be suprised. I have freinds from the middle east (one just came back from Iran), and this type of so called " justice" is rampant there.

My freind Sams mother almost got killed because she tried to leave her abusive husband, and he then threatened to kill the children ( Sam encluded) if she left.

Do a search and read about Sharia law as well and see what you find.

There is lots of propeganda out there I agree, and it can be tough to sort through it all. Especially when the USA is trying so hard to smooth over why they are still in Iraq
post #16 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruel_angel View Post
Fox news?? I may as well get my information on the blacks and jews from the KKK.

Right

I can see the comparison?

And I am guessing that any news network that reports about anything negative involving any sort of minority group is rascist right?
post #17 of 307
It's so funny that liberal idiots would rather believe that Iran doesn't do anything disgusting, barbaric, and Stone Age-esque than believe Fox News might be right about something.
post #18 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruel_angel View Post
Fox news?? I may as well get my information on the blacks and jews from the KKK.
Woah, that WAS uncalled for. I think Iran probably isn't the most fabulous place to live right now, I married someone 25 yrs ago so they wouldn't have to go back as Ayotollah Khomeini was just in power then after the Shah Pahlavi (?sp) was deposed.
His family didn't want him to come back. Eventually he went back anyway, as it was his home.
My point was that America is a young country, Iran/Persia is almost 2,000 years old. We might think about where this country is going to be in that timeframe.
post #19 of 307
Thread Starter 
I know we are in struggles with that region right now, but this is not out of the realm of what that society does. I don't care for CNN or MSNBC, but that doesn't mean EVERYTHING they report is inaccurate.

The only issue I have with this story is that they call these murderers Serial Killers. I would have to check up on that definition, but this activity sounds more vigilante. Or maybe they are just using the immorality as an excuse to justify their murdering tendencies.

In my title, I don't mean to imply I think America is perfect, but I would certainly rather live here, where I have rights as opposed to other society's in the world.

On the Oprah show, they were talking about a Country in Africa where a woman was elected to the highest office. The FIRST bill that women passed was to make rape a crime. That wasn't that long ago, and a woman had no recourse from an attack like that. Evil just exists in the world, and some of it is sanctioned sadly.
post #20 of 307
kenics and avatar, you know i love you both, but just want to make it clear that all i am saying is that i think it's a bit presumptuous to either:

* make such a judgment on an entire nation without a reasonable amount of due diligence (that includes understanding of context)

* presume that everyone who criticizes any Fox News report is a liberal idiot. that's like saying that if you don't want to be a liberal idiot, you better praise every Fox News report.



p.s. also, pretty much every mainstream source of media is going to be biased. of course, that doesn't mean that what they say is false, but to assume that they always present the WHOLE story is.
post #21 of 307
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post

p.s. also, pretty much every mainstream source of media is going to be biased. of course, that doesn't mean that what they say is false, but to assume that they always present the WHOLE story is.
I don't disagree with this, I just don't find this story very farfetched.
post #22 of 307
iran does indeed have some old, silly, archaic laws based on sexism and religion. i'm not going to play the cultural relativism card here (mainly because i think it's a bullshit idea that is PC based), but the people there seem to be strong and slowly, but surely, changing the laws and society itself.
post #23 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenics View Post
I don't disagree with this, I just don't find this story very farfetched.
i don't either, but whenever i read something like this, i always immediately ask if i'm getting the whole story. something like this is so EASY to spin in any angle, depending on what you leave out and how you present the story. that's what propaganda is - not necessarily false, but cleverly advertised. in fact, advertisement can be likened to legal propaganda lol.
post #24 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by not_a_virus.exe View Post
kenics and avatar, you know i love you both, but just want to make it clear that all i am saying is that i think it's a bit presumptuous to either:

* make such a judgment on an entire nation without a reasonable amount of due diligence (that includes understanding of context)

* presume that everyone who criticizes any Fox News report is a liberal idiot. that's like saying that if you don't want to be a liberal idiot, you better praise every Fox News report.
You got good points Tim, but we arent making blanket statements about the nation, just the state of some of its laws and justice system.

And comparing Fox or other news stations to the KKK is ridiculous and over the top. Its like when anti bush people compare him to Adolf Hitler.

I am guessing thats why the liberal idiot comment was made.
post #25 of 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar View Post
It's so funny that liberal idiots would rather believe that Iran doesn't do anything disgusting, barbaric, and Stone Age-esque than believe Fox News might be right about something.
I'm not saying that Iran is perfect, or anything to that degree. It just pisses me off when people pull these sensationalized articles (which may or may not have actual merit) and try to simplify the conflict in the Middle East by going "Oh, what a horrible country, look how stupid and barbaric they are... GO USA!!" Basing your entire opinion on news articles designed to sell (by using shocking situation and gruesome details, exploiting our own stereotypes), there is no way that you can fully understand the conflict or merit of a country and reduce it to, "Wow, I'm glad I don't live there."

Of course, I know that these situations do exist, and that they are wrong, but I don't agree with the way that they are portrayed and interpreted by the general population. How many of you guys have read the translated Koran, or tried to look at cultural patterns to see another perspective of the bombings? Not many. It's easier to read biased articles from fox about them "damn Arab terrorists."

Has anyone else noticed how the US likes to handle this issue in general? Line up all the past Newsweeks and Times magazine and you'll notice that every single one usually has one particular person on it. Instead of trying to interpret and understand the issue as a whole it's a hell of a lot easier to target one particular person and demonize them to the point where they embody the conflict.

Ethnocentrism, anyone?
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