This is how I gauge my fits from skinniest Tepphar to regular slim Safado. Tepphar, Thanaz/Thavar, Shioner, Darron, Krooley, Koolter, Braddom, Safado. The Shioner is very similar to Thanaz and Thavar. If you buy a pair of Shioner with 98% Cotton 2% stretch, you're safe to buy the same size as you would Safado. If you buy a pair of Shioner made with 100% Denim cotton, then 1 size up.